Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
Good afternoon and welcome to LD Talk, the Web’s first and only site devoted to expert discussions on issues concerning learning disabilities. LD Talk is a service of the National Center for Learning Disabilities (NCLD). We look forward to bringing you ongoing opportunities to connect with leading experts in the LD field via this new service. Thanks for joining us!
Our expert today is Dr. Arlyn Roffman. Arlyn is professor of special education at Lesley University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. From 1981-1996, Arlyn served as the founding director of Threshold, a transition program for young adults with learning disabilities at the university. She is the author of Meeting the Challenge of Learning Disabilities in Adulthood published by Brookes Publishing. Dr. Roffman is a former officer and long-standing member of NCLD's professional advisory board. Thanks for being with us today, Dr. Roffman.
Our discussion today will focus on Students with LD: Transitioning to Post-School Life. Dr. Roffman will respond to questions about challenges faced by students and their parents during this often confusing and stressful time. She will also share resources to help students, parents and educators make informed decisions about post-secondary options. For background on this topic, read the February 2005 issues of LD News Transition Issue
I am Dr. Sheldon Horowitz, director of professional services at the National Center for Learning Disabilities, and I’ll be moderating today’s discussion.
We have received many questions for this today’s discussion. We will do our best to offer replies to those questions most closely related to our discussion topic. Questions unrelated to this topic can be sent to NCLD’s Help Desk at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Let's begin the discussion.
Question from Joseph Costain:
Can you suggest any career testing or similar testing that might help us determine what the next step should be for our son after high school? He has not shown any interest in his future and just keeps saying he doesn't want to talk about the future because it scares him. How do we build a transition plan for a student who has not spoken up for himself. He just want to live with his parents forever. Though we love him dearly, we will not always be here and we believe he can be a fully self supporting adult. He is of average intelligence and constantly reads, which has lead to an incredible broad base of knowledge. His comprehension is grade 14, and his vocabulary grade 12. On the other side he has Aspergers Syndrome, is developmentally delayed 3-4 years, has severe learnning disabilities and mild cerebral palsey that effects his hand muscles and makes writing difficult. He has no math concept and can't count change. He is so scattered with his abilities we have no idea what to do for him and we are not getting any real direction.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
My first reaction is to respond to your son’s fear. It would be helpful if he could talk about it with you or with a teacher or counselor at school. Once he’s been reassured that he won’t be cast out on his own before he’s ready, he should be able to get ’unstuck’ enough to start articulating some interests and maybe even some dreams about his future.
At 14 and with a developmental delay, it may be a bit soon to conduct a formal evaluation, but within a couple of years, your son’s school counselor may be able to administer a Strong-Campbell Interest Inventory, which is often used to find career interest areas. Better yet would be a combination of an interest inventory and a hands-on vocational assessment, which evaluates both skills and aptitudes. Your state Department of Rehabilitation office is a resource for this evaluation. They can help you look for the overlap of interests, abilities, and aptitudes.
Since your son is 14, it’s time for relevant outside agencies to step into the transition planning process - in this case Rehab should definitely be invited.
Question from Anne Sabagh ,Individual w/Learning Disabilities:
Dr. Roffman, can you give adult w/LD some ideas of how to best meet the challenges of the workplace that so many w/LD face?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Hi Anne.
Glad you asked about this - the workplace is a great challenge for lots of folks with LD. I think the biggest hurdle is the lack of understanding of LD among employers, supervisors, and co-workers. Because it’s invisible, some are skeptical that LD exists or confuse it with other disorders, even with mental retardation.
This raises the question of whether and when to self-disclose your LD on the job. It would take the full hour of this chat to discuss all the pros and cons of self-disclosure, but I will say that it is a good idea to proceed with caution in this area. Most experts on employment advise adults with LD to wait until they are hired to self-disclose and, even then, to do so only if they will need accommodations to be able to perform the essential functions of the job. Some choose to work around the label. For example, saying, ’I can be more productive if I have a quiet place to do my work without distractions’ communicates self-awareness and assertiveness without actually disclosing the LD.
Nonetheless, you may well arrive at a point on your job when you do want to disclose your LD. It’s important that you do this proactively, rather waiting until you’re in trouble for not performing well. You’ll be most effective at disclosing if you understand your own learning issues, have a good sense of your own strengths and areas of challenge, and have practiced explaining them to others. Self-advocacy is KEY to successful employment! Some people find it helpful to disclose with some literature about LD in hand - you will find many helpful documents on LD.org and other online resources.
If you do need accommodations at work, the Job Accommodation Network (JAN) provides free telephone technical assistance and a terrific website at http://www.jan.wvu.edu, where you can identify accommodations that match your areas of challenge.
Back to your question. Because LD is so heterogeneous, the challenges in the workplace vary for each individual and for each employment setting. It’s hard to offer specific suggestions without knowing your circumstances, but I will offer one last word of advice: look for a job that capitalizes on your strengths and where your challenge areas aren’t called upon too often. Finding the right match will make all the difference in your experience in the workplace.
Question from Jocelyn Washburn, Special Education Teacher, Spotsylvania County Schools:
I am taking a graduate class at VCU on transition and am reading your book. There is so much that I need to cover with the students on my caseload before they graduate in regards to their rights and needs in adulthood. Is there a case management curriculum or checklist for essential transition information for students in grades 9-12?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Hi Jocelyn. Nice to hear you’re using my book in your class. Yes, there’s much to teach and much for the students to learn in order to prepare for adulthood. A case management package would be a great addition to the educational literature and would be a handy tool for the kind of individualized planning we need to do for students with LD as they move into high school and beyond. Unfortunately, I’m not aware of any such tool, but perhaps some of the participants in today’s chat do know of something along these lines. If so, please do write in!
For those on a college track, I do know of a few helpful lists of steps to take to prepare for post-secondary learning throughout the high school years. I especially like Loring Brinckerhoff’s comprehensive list of what should be done in each grade from eighth grade through graduation. His ’Timetable for Transition Planning for Students with LD and ADHD’ appears in his book Postsecondary Education and Transition for Students with LD, 2nd edition, written with Joan McGuire and Stan Shaw and published by Pro-Ed.
Question from Karen Abouraya, parent, Silver Spring, MD:
What options are available for students whose disabilities are too severe to allow for college...but not severe enough to be eligible for state supported employment and services?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
The percentage of students with LD who graduate from high school and continue on to college is far too low. We need to do a better job of encouraging our youth to finish high school (a shocking number drop out) and continue their learning. Happily, these days there are increasing opportunities for students with LD who are not well-suited for traditional four-year degree programs.
Several college-based, non-degree options are open to students with severe learning disabilities who may wish to experience campus life, but who would likely be too intellectually challenged by the academic rigors of a traditional degree program. Typically, these 2 - 3 year programs prepare students with LD, who also function in the low-average range intellectually, for independent adulthood through a series of practical courses and field placements. Programs generally focus on development of vocational skills, apartment living skills, consumer and money management skills, meal planning and preparation skills, and social skills. Most incorporate transitional support for graduates as they move from campus life into both the community and work world.
There are a growing number of offerings that focus on the same skills addressed in the college-based, non-degree programs but that are less academic and are not situated on a college campus. These programs are often apartment-based and focus on development of community living skills along with work preparation. Some of these programs maintain an affiliation with local colleges, and students may travel to those schools and take postsecondary courses as part of their overall program.
Many adults with LD receive additional training through their local office of the Department of Rehabilitation. The focus of training through rehab varies somewhat but largely targets development of skills related to getting and keeping a job.
Even though your question is about options other than college, I’d like to add that some students with LD who question their ability to succeed in a 4-year college give community college a try. With open admissions to any high school graduate over age 18, community colleges require neither standardized college admissions tests nor a roster of college-track courses during the high school years. They offer a wide array of courses, with classes ranging in focus from vocational to liberal arts. If it works out for the student, the credits can be transferred to either a vocational school or to a 4-year college.
Finally, the Armed Forces represent another option for some young adults with LD. Anyone going this route, however, should be sure to ask about regulations regarding qualifications, as there are disqualifiers, such as current use of medication to improve or maintain academic skills.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
For a brief overview of these types of alternative postsecondary options be sure to visit NCLD’s Living with LD Web site.
Question from Naomi Lufkin, M.A., Psychotherapist:
When an individual with a learning disability begins his/her freshman year in college, and lives away from home, would it be more likely that he/she experiences major transitional/adjustment problems to college life?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Adjustment issues arise for all entering students. For example, they all need to adjust when faced with the shift from tightly organized day to full-freedom-with-a-smattering-of-scheduled-classes; when class size may suddenly jump into the hundreds; when study time is completely based upon self-initiation; and when there is little feedback on progress until mid-terms.
But there are some challenges specific to LD, as a student moves on to college life. Some relate to the symptoms of the learning disability itself. For example, students with auditory issues who need extra processing time may have difficulty taking notes and absorbing information delivered through fast-paced lectures. Those with receptive language problems may find themselves confused by written test items or by oral directions. Students with reading disorders often feel particularly burdened by the heavy reading requirements in many areas of study, such as literature or history. And students with temporal problems have little sense of the time required to complete a task and tend to have inefficient study habits.
Perhaps the biggest adjustment faced by new college students with LD is that, having moved beyond the protection of IDEA and their IEP, services are no longer mandated, and they must become self-advocates if they are to receive accommodations.
The good news is that there are supports in place to help students through all of this! Students with LD should take advantage of the support services on campus. Disabled Students Services offices can be incredibly helpful in offering not only academic support, but also assistance with pre-registration, advice about course selection, and help with organization.
Question from Nithya, Mother of senior in high school:
Hi, My daughter is motivated hard working high school senior. But her test taking skills( SAT/ ACT) are very poor. How I can explain that to colleges that require SATs but have good support programs for these motivated dyslexic 3.0 class average kids.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
It’s great that your daughter is motivated, hard working and achieving - those are characteristics that will serve her well when she heads off to school! There are many colleges and universities these days that de-emphasize testing in the admissions process. A list of those is available at Schools That Do Not Use SAT I or ACT Scores for Admitting Substantial Numbers of Students Into Bachelor Degree Programs.
Your daughter needn’t limit herself to the schools on this list, however. Often colleges with good support services have academic support center staff linked closely to admissions. Many competitive colleges would find her an attractive candidate; however, she’ll need to advocate for herself (N.B. It’s not up to you to do the explaining- this is her task.) In the context of her personal essay, she should identify the challenges she’s faced and describe how she’s demonstrated drive, effort and persistence - these are all very desirable qualities. In addition, she should let the college know that the reason she’s applying is that she has heard they offer high quality support services that will meet her needs. Good luck in the admissions process!
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
By the way,if you want to access a copy of the Timetable for Transition Planning referenced earlier, you might want to visit the SchwabLearning.org Web site after March 8th, when Loring's article is published on that site.
Question from Karen Abouraya, parent, Silver Spring, Maryland:
What strategies do you use to teach young people about money, from getting the right change to budgeting a paycheck?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Lots of adults with LD struggle in their efforts to become financially responsible. There are a variety of factors that can get in their way. For example, if they have dyscalculia, they may find it hard to perform calculations; dyslexia may make it difficult to contend with written information they receive from their bank; and visual perception problems may cause them to reverse numbers or misalign columns in computation.
We have featured an excerpt from my book, Meeting the Challenge of Learning Disabilities in Adulthood that directly addresses this particular issue, so you can click on that to read more about this.
The Practical Money Skills for Life program - advertised as being ’an in-depth resource for educating students in grades 7-12 about smart money management’ - is available through the Council for Exceptional Children (CEC) at www.practicalmoneyskills.com.
As a parting word, though, I will say that it is far more motivating to young people with LD to learn about money within the context of real-life experiences than with simulated transactions. For example, practicing with a real checking account wins hands-down over role-playing banking within a resource room. A combination of classroom teaching and practice in the community is advisable.
Question from Beth Kessen, Mom, 2 sons with Multiple LD:
One son graduates high school this June, my other one next year. What's the biggest hurdle they face, and what can I do to help, or at least, not hinder?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
It’s great you’re thinking about ways to help your sons through this transition. I love the fact that you’ve included ’not hinder’ in your question. Too many parents, though meaning well, foster an unhealthy dependence and what is called a learned helplessness in their children with LD. A great gift for your sons would be helping them move toward self-determination, which is the ability to make choices on their own, to be effective decision-makers, to be able to set goals for themselves, to be self-aware and have a sense that they have the ability to achieve what they reasonably set out to do.
At this point in their children’s development, parents need to start pulling back from being the managers of their lives. Give your sons choices, allow them a voice in decision-making whenever possible, encourage them to communicate their vision for the short- and long-term future and help them think about how they might achieve what they articulate. While your sons are still in high school, urge them to take an active role in their IEP meetings. Help them develop the confidence and skills needed to be their own self-advocates in the community and on the job.
In the meantime, help them see that their LD is only a piece of who they are. Help them identify and feel good about their strengths - students with LD spend far too much time concentrating on what they can’t do and not enough time celebrating what they can.
Question from Stephen Migden, PhD, Psychologist/Educ Consultant:
As you know, AHEAD documentation requirements, as well as those of many post-secondary high stakes tests, have tended to emphasize comprehensive psychoed testing in order to obtain accommodations and services under the ADA and RA. In view of this, how do you think the new IDEA's movement toward identification of LD via RTI can be integrated with current post-secondary documentation requirements, such as those of AHEAD? What role do you think the Summary of Performance called for in the new IDEA will play in post-secondary documentation of LD? Thanks.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Change is in the air! With Response to Intervention (RTI)(see NCLD's FAQ for more information on this topic), there is a stepping back from the psycho-educational battery that school-aged students have received in the past. I hear there is buzz on the AHEAD listserv about how colleges will handle the documentation requirement.
It’s easiest to understand how RTI will work in the context of the primary grades when students are just beginning to work on basic skills. The picture gets cloudier in the upper and secondary grades, where the model appears to be less applicable. If students graduate without a formal assessment battery, colleges are going to have to work with what IS provided, which may include a narrative history of the student’s learning challenges; authentic assessment devices, such as portfolios; and the Summary of Performance, which will play a key role in communicating the student’s strengths and weaknesses. Our next challenge will be to train teachers how to write them in a effectively! AHEAD is wrestling with this issue and has set up a task force to determine how it will respond.
Question from Michael C. Lasky ,NCLD Board:
1. Since so many young adults with learning disabilities learn experientially, I have been suprised in my own investigation to find very few "hands on" learning or cooperative educational post secondary/ college programs there are in the country for students with mild to moderate learning disabilities. Is my investigation accurrate and are there programs in the new media/ information technology area that you think do this?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
You are absolutely correct. So many students, not just those with learning disabilities, could benefit from more hand-on types of post-secondary training programs. (Some European nations actually provide these types of experiences across a wide range of vocational areas.) While I don't have first-hand information about specific programs in the media/information technology area, I bet there are a number of companies that offer certificate training programs that could serve as a jumping-off point for these students. Cisco, for example has a Neworking Academy that offers students an opportunity to pursue IT curricula through online instructor-led training and hands-on lab exercises at a variety of locations including community colleges.
Question from Joanne Simonson, School Psychologist, Pacifica School District:
What are some practical ideas for preparing middle school aged children for the transition to independence?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Bravo for thinking about starting on this before high school! Actually, I think we can start even younger, but middle school is a great time to ratchet up the focus on developing independence. I’ll focus on what the school can do as well as how the family can join in on this.
Both parents and teachers should foster self-determination and self-advocacy, as I’ve described above, giving students lots of practice in choice-making, goal-setting, etc.
By late middle school, teachers should help students with LD learn more about the IEP process and the essential role they should play in developing IEPs during high school. Check out this resource from the Council for Exceptional Children: Student-Led IEPs: A Guide for Student Involvement
Parents should help their children plan their own leisure time activities and, if necessary, coach them on related social skills.
Parents and teachers should work in cooperation to help their children develop good work habits, a structure for getting assignments done and an awareness of the conditions under which they learn/perform best.
Parents should give children of this age a start on developing skills for independent living, such as cooking, cleaning , shopping, doing laundry.
Parents and teachers alike can help develop children’s awareness of various occupations and what kinds of skills and training they entail. Job fairs and planned activities, such as Take-Your-Child-to-Work-Day are very helpful in giving them an introduction to different types of employment.
At your school you may want to consider using ’My Future My Plan’ a transition curriculum. Information about this resource is available at the National Center on Secondary Education and Transition.
Question from Judy Lee (mother):
Is there a list of 4 year university that specialize or sympathize with the dyslexic student. My dauther is interested in nursing.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
The Peterson’s Colleges with Programs for Students with Learning Disabilities or Attention-Deficit Disorders by Mangrum and Strichart should be a very helpful resource for you. Another resource is the K & W Guide to Colleges for Students with Learning Disabilities or Attention Deficit Disorder by Kravets and Wax.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
A word of advice these types of published guides are often a terrific starting point for gathering information and narrowing down a search. Remember, however, that they are just that; a starting point. Personnel come and go, and funding for programs and services at colleges is subject to change, so it is always wise to make personal contact (phone or e-mail) with the office of department overseeing disability services. And another word for Judy. If your daughter is interested in nursing, be sure to ask whether the office that coordinates student support had a good working relationship with the folks over at the department! If not, it would pay to organize a series of conversations around what you know to be the ingredients for success for your daughter.
Question from Randy Arm, Parent:
How do you impress upon them the importance of staying with a good job long enough for benefits and other extras instead of keeping a job for a year at a time and moving on to another?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Most young adults change jobs a number of times when they first enter the work world, some because their responsibilities change and they no longer find their position to be a good fit to their skills, and some because they lose interest or are let go. Perhaps your child isn’t well matched to his position. He might consider a vocational evaluation, as I described earlier. He could also go onto the Internet to O*Net Online. Developed by the Department of Labor, it provides many valuable links to sites on related employment information.
That said, you may want offer him the sound advice that the best time to look for a job is when one has a job. That way there won’t be a gap in income or health insurance, and he’ll have an opportunity to compare benefits, salary, hours, etc. against those offered at the job he’s considering leaving.
Question from Ellen Costain - Parent:
My question is related to the transfer of rights. I do not want my son, who is developmentally delayed and has Asperger's Syndrom to conduct business matters with the public school or any other agency without an attorney or myself ensuring his rights are protected. I do not want my son released from special education unless his goals are met or he reaches the age of 21. How can I protect his rights without having him declared incompetent? In discussing this with an attorney I was told it would cost about $5,000 and be costly and stressful to overturn later in his life if he becomes capable of handling his own affairs.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Parents of students with severe LD often struggle with this same issue, wanting to protect their children but concerned about locking them into a position of dependence if they go to court and establish incompetence. Schools do have an obligation to notify students one year before they reach the age of majority (18) that they will be responsible for the signing of their IEP. I believe it is possible to check on the IEP that the student elects to share that responsibility with his/her parents or with someone else - by doing so, it will be possible to avoid the stress and expense you’ve described in having him declared incompetent and later reversing that status.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
Be sure to learn about the Changes to Transition Planning that are effective July 1, 2005, as a result of the recent reauthorization of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.
Question from Ellen Schwartz, physical therapist,CPNJ and mother of 16 yr old boy with specific learning disability:
Is it advisable for a high school student, who is functioning very well in mainstream classes with accomodations, to self-disclose his learning disability when applying to college?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Since your son has done very well in mainstream classes, I don’t think it’s necessary to self-disclose during the application process. However, since you report that he benefited from accommodations, I would urge him to step forward and self-disclose as soon as he’s accepted so he can benefit from accommodations in his college classes as well. The college is not obligated to accommodate unless he does self-disclose. FYI, the percentage of college freshmen with LD who disclose has gone up dramatically in recent years, so he will certainly not be alone in this!
Question from Debra Martin, Parent:
My daughter has dyslexia and she is interested in a trade school maybe Cosmetology Program. Can a state exam for a lisence be read to someone who has dyslexia? Any other advise in looking into trade schools or Junior colleges?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Generally, the answer is yes - with appropriate documenation of her dyslexia, most schools would agree to provide a reader for licensing tests. For particulars in your state, I would contact the state agency in charge of Cosmetology credentialing.
Question from Vicky Kauffman, Parent and lecturer at UNM:
My daughter is about to turn 18, but is far from graduating High school. It's been recommended that she seek her GED and move on to a tech-vocational school, to stay with folks her age, and to stop the dismal performance route she's on. Do you think this is a good idea? and do you have suggestions?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
As you know, your daughter is entitled to remain at the high school until she meets the graduation requirements or reaches age 22. It sounds as if she’s been struggling and is more likely to age out than earn a diploma. I’m wondering what your daughter’s opinion is about this. At 18 she is watching her peers graduate, getting ready to go to work or continue on to college, moving on both physically and psychologically to a new phase of life. It can be very demoralizing for students with special needs to remain in their high school after the rest of their class graduates unless there is a promising and exciting transition plan in place so that next year won’t be just ’more of the same.’
Many students at risk for failing high stakes testing are opting for a GED, which allows them to experience closure of the K-12 school years and opens doors to post-secondary learning opportunities. Is there a program at the voc-tech school that interests her? I suggest that she read the course catalogue, go for a visit, spend a day shadowing a well-chosen student to get a sense of the school and the students who attend. It is very possible she’ll find a potential community there where she will be accepted and where she can at last succeed in her course work.
If her high school is offering a community-based transition program where she can acquire vocational and life skills, have her investigate details about that too. But I would let her opt out of the high school if she is going to have to continue to enroll in the same type of classes where she has repeatedly met with failure and frustration.
Sit down and talk it all over. Guide her through the decision-making process, but ultimately, at 18, it is she who should be the decision-maker. This is an important opportunity for self-determination.
Question from Eleni Martin, Parent:
Many schools de-emphasize the need for LD students to learn script--as long as Janey and Johny can print, they will be fine. But, the realitiy is that not knowing how to read script writing sets the stage for difficulties and can adversely impact performance at the workplace and at college. With this in mind, I have two questions: 1. The inability to read script means that many LD individuals may miss out on important information in their day-to-day life. What are your thoughts on this challenge for LD adults?; and 2. Practically speaking, how do you teach script reading and writing to young adults and what type of instructor does one go to for this?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Schools used to make such a fuss about learning handwriting, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside in all but the primary years, as keyboards have become more available. In these days of high-stakes testing, other skills and lessons have risen in priority. Many students with LD who struggle with fine-motor problems truly benefit from the availability of technology to write their thoughts, and upper-grade teachers are quite happy to be able to decipher their work. If the students can print reasonably well on short-answer work and use a keyboard for extensive writing assignments, teachers are often satisfied to let it go at that.
I’m with you, though, that all students should learn to decode script. You make a good point about the disadvantages both in the community and in the workplace for those who haven’t been taught to read cursive writing. This is not a complex skill, however, so you could either ask for it to be a goal on your child’s IEP or take this on at home. A helpful resource is Cursive Writing Skills by Diana Hanbury King, published by Educators Publishing Service, at http://www.epsbooks.com/dynamic/catalog/ . This workbook will get your child writing a bit and will certainly help him or her learn to recognize cursive lettering. Good luck on this!
Question from Lura Jaquess, Clinical Social Worker, Justice Center:
What are the IDEA laws that affect higher learning institutions? What are possible funding resources for higher learning opportunities for individuals with a learning disabilitiy or ADD/ADHD? Grants and Scholorships?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
IDEA applies to students in grades K-12; it does not affect post-secondary institutions. Graduates with LD may apply for the Anne Ford Scholarship - information about this award is available at http://ncld.org/awards/afscholarinfo.cfm. I am not aware of other scholarships specific to LD, but Fastweb.com and Collegeboard.com both allow you to search through a vast array of scholarship offerings. Also check out the HEATH Resource Center: Financial Aid for Students with Disabilities.
When finances are limited, many students opt to at least begin their studies at community colleges.
Question from Cynthia, Parent:
How do you get across to the school district that you are concerned for the lack of level of education that your child is at when only a few years remain before formal public education stops?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Unfortunately, there are MANY students with LD who are being ill-served by schools these days. The National Longitudinal Transition Study-II reports that significant numbers of our students function well below grade level; that 31% spend ALL their time in general education classes, where few teachers have been trained to meet their needs; and, sadly, that only 62% of these general ed teachers receive any information at all about the needs of the students with LD included in their classes! (Learn more about this important study.) Despite the legal requirement for transition planning in the US, there are 9 states that don’t even employ secondary transition coordinators. So the system definitely needs fixing. If you’re unhappy with your child’s progress, you can express that at his IEP meeting. In fact, you can call a meeting of the team at any time to express your concerns. Since you still have several years left within the school system, take a more active role in your child’s IEP development- you are critically important to the process!
Question from Mary Roots, Sp.Ed. Teacher, Hutchinson (KS) Public Schools:
Over 50% of our student population come from poverty level homes. During the high school years students are prepared for adulthood, but after graduation most do not transition successfully; i.e. they do not use the skills taught in school to gain employment or stay employed, they do not become involved in community groups and do not use community agencies. Many wander the streets; some turn to crime. Our community agencies are very understaffed and the students who get help are those who are strong self-advocates. In addition, 40-50% of my seniors drop out of school; most of them are within weeks of graduation. My questions are: 1. What changes need to be made at school so that they will be live more successful lives? 2. What can be done to insure that Community agencies will remain involved with my students? 3. What can be done to keep the 18 year old in school so they can get their diploma?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
You’ve asked some very important questions - the pattern you see in your community is replicated in so many others throughout the country. We MUST reduce the rate of drop-out among our students with LD! Nationally, more than 30% of our students are failing to complete high school and face futures of limited employment, poverty, low self-esteem and too often crime. We have to find new ways to keep youth with LD in high school through graduation. One way to do this is to make education more relevant for these high-risk students. We need to offer occupationally-oriented education that allows them to explore a variety of work environments during their school years. According to the National Longitudinal Transition Study, independent of other factors, youth who graduate from high school, who take voc ed during their senior year, or have work experience as part of their vocational training are significantly more likely than others to be competitively employed after high school. So, I’d start by getting them into the work world for part of every day. In these days of high-stakes testing, there’s not a lot of support for removing students from traditional course work, but those at risk of dropping out will find it more motivating to learn life-skills oriented classes that teach workplace literacy skills and reinforce survival-level basic skills. We need to have high expectations for these students - too often teachers give up on them, and then are surprised when they give up on themselves! We have to offer individualized planning that helps them identify their goals and offers appropriate services to help actually reach them. A 1:1 mentoring program would put these students on the radar of at least one caring adult and would assure them that the school really does care about their progress. By the time students enter the secondary years, we need to bring community agencies into the schools to participate in transition planning and to firmly establish their involvement with students who will continue to need their services following graduation. We need to celebrate like crazy when they do actually graduate and provide bridge services for a year as they transition from high school to agency support. I know my plan wouldn’t fix the system, but I do think it would be a start in the right direction.
Question from Megan Miller, mother of 9th grade student:
My daughter is preparing for post-secondary education. Are there any services we can expect to receive from the college or university she chooses,how do we obtain information as to what is available? What type of post-high school services should the school be providing in preparation for college?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
There are over a thousand colleges and universities in the US that now offer services to students with learning disabilities, so your daughter will have a broad range of options! First, she should check in the Peterson’s Guide or the K & W Guide for schools that meet any criteria she’s set for college size, location, academic offerings, etc. (These guides are available from Amazon.com or may also be available in your local library.) The guides provide some details about the level of services offered. There’s no universal model of service delivery - some schools offer an array of separate services, others offer a more comprehensive program - so it’ll take some checking.
Given appropriate documentation, schools typically provide auxiliary aids, such as taped textbooks, tape recorders, readers, and sometimes note-takers. Accommodations such as extended time on exams or distraction-free test-taking rooms must be available as well. Many schools provide an academic skills center that helps students improve study skills.
Campuses with more comprehensive support programs provide more in-depth services for students. Coordinated by full-time personnel with expertise in LD and ADHD, these programs use a diagnostic-prescriptive approach, providing individualized services, such as subject-area tutoring and developmental courses in math, writing, social skills, and/or self-advocacy.
There are other points to consider when choosing a college. For example, prospective students should investigate the school’s flexibility with regard to course requirements and its stand on course substitutions for math or foreign language.
Loring Brinckerhoff has written a timely article, entitled ’Teens with LD and ADHD: Shopping for College Options,’ which will be posted on the Schwab Learning Web site on March 8th and which will surely be of interest to you. (Sign up for the Schwab Learning Weekly Newsletter so you'll be sure to know when this article appears!)
Another overview of the college search process is provided in this article: Selecting A College for Students with Learning Disabilities or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).
You ask what your daughter’s high school should be doing to prepare her for post-secondary life. Aside from reinforcing her basic skills and teaching her study skills and organizational strategies, I think it’s critical that she be helped to understand her learning disability, the kinds of accommodations that help her work around her areas of difficulty, and her rights and responsibilities under the law. It’s essential that she know how to communicate this information to others - as I’ve already said earlier in this chat, self-advocacy is key to success as an adult. Another helpful document that provides information for high school students with disabilities who plan to continue their education in postsecondary schools is available from the U.S. Dept of Education's Office for Civil Rights (OCR) , entitled, Students with Disabilities Preparing for Postsecondary Education:
Know Your Rights and Responsibilities.
Question from Carolyn Stepnitz, Parent, Cecil County Public Schools, Maryland:
My son is a high school senior who, with classroom accommodations and LOTS of help at home, consistently achieved honor roll grades. However, if he had to pass the state tests to graduate, he wouldn't be graduating, and in the practical world outside the classroom, his language based learning disabilities (some of which, like auditory processing deficits, were not even diagnosed until high school) constantly hold him back. Because of his grades the school resisted helping. We filed a complaint and the State found the school had committed several violations of the IDEA law. We are to have a meeting to determine the effect the violations had on his edcuation and how to compensate him. Do you have advice for what course we should set for a senior who did not get appropriate instruction in learning how to learn with a disability? Thank you.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
If the State has found the school in violation of the law, you have a good chance of receiving some compensatory services if you request them. Ask for a tutor to work with your son to bridge the areas where he’s fallen behind and help him learn strategies for learning. They may be willing to pay for a summer pre-college program that focuses on skill building. Landmark College has an excellent program. The Lab School of Washington is closer to you - check whether they have services that might be helpful to your son.
Question from Lorraine Adler, Social Worker and Parent:
There are very few jobs for these children especially with writing deficits. My daughter has ADD and writing dificulties. She was employed as clerical/AA due to her computer skills but there are fewer clerical supportjobs.These jobs are decreasing every year. What type of meaningful work awaits them. How will they support them selves in such low paying work. She is now very depressed and may qualify for disability payments but that is not the future that I had hoped for as a parent.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
For some adults with LD, the day-to-day effort required to deal with their symptoms can be both exhausting and discouraging and can lead to mental health problems. I’m sorry to hear about your daughter’s depression. It’s very likely that getting back on track in the work world will be healing. The trick will be to find work with a ’goodness of fit,’ that matches her interests and aptitudes. There are many jobs that don’t entail a lot of writing and where her ADHD may not be an impediment.
Your daughter sounds like an excellent candidate to benefit from the services of the Department of Rehabilitation, a national agency that has offices in every state. Services provided include a comprehensive vocational assessment, job training and placement, and follow-up. Counselors there will be able to find a good job match for your daughter and should help launch her into more stable employment. You can locate the REHAB office in your state here.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
The Timetable for Transition Planning referred to earlier is available after March 8th at the SchwabLearning.org Web site, when Loring's article and additional links will be published.
Question from Geralyn DiMango, parent:
Is a "garden variety" high school guidance counselor in a good position to make recommendations as to post high school direction, or should we hire a private education specialist to help us?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
This is a great question. There are a number of variables at work here. In the best of worlds, all public school guidance counselors are familiar enough not only with each individual student in their case load, but also with the broad range of options - from community colleges to competitive 4-year universities - that provide services for students with LD. Unfortunately, most guidance counselors have an impossible case load, and not enough know about the services students with LD need to access. That said, it’s hard to respond to your query.
At my daughter’s public school, some guidance counselors had better reputations than others for knowing their students and some more than others for having a good sense of what schools had to offer. Ask parents of previous graduates with LD about their experiences with the counselors at your school. Go talk with you son or daughter’s counselor and ask what s/he can offer your child.
Independent consultants visit many colleges each year and are able to keep up with specifics, not only about their various programs, but also about personnel, policies, documentation requirements and even the culture of the campus. Their services range from hourly consultation about choosing a school to a full package that takes a student through the process of selecting appropriate options, preparing for the SAT/ACT, filling out the application, preparing essays, practicing for the interview, even coaching about what to wear for the visit to campus. Naturally, fees range considerably for these services, not only based on specifics contracted for, but also based on where in the US you live - fees tend to be higher on the coasts.
More information about private college counseling is available at the website for Independent Educational Consultants Association (IECA) - http://www.IECAonline.com, and at the site for National Association of College Admissions Counselors (NACAC) - http://www.NACAC.com. Good luck with the college application process!
Question from Karen R. Nicholas, Ph.D., Nicholas Educational Consulting:
So many students with LD attend post-secondary institutions yet don't self-report their disability or request services. Consequently, they are not taking advantage of the many support services that are made available to them, choosing to face the demands of post-secondary education head-on without seeking help. What are your suggestions for increasing the awareness of (and lessening the stigma of) seeking support services in higher ed? Do institutions have an obligation to "recruit" students and provide services, thus potentially increasing the graduation rate of students with LD?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
It's so important that we somehow reduce the shame associated with LD! Too many students graduate from high school and feel negative about asking for services in college. One college student who was struggling came to me not too long ago and told me she had always had support services in the past but wanted a "clean slate" when she went on to university. She felt after all those years of services, maybe she was all better.
I'm afraid this was wishful thinking on her part. LD doesn't go away, though the symptoms may decrease in certain arenas. Certainly if a student has needed assistance with writing in the past, this is going to be an area where support will be needed in postsecondary learning.
I encourage teachers, guidance counselors and parents to all talk about the chronicity of LD as a given, that LD will be a piece of their life for the longrun, but that it's just a piece of who they are. It's important for ALL students to know the resources available to them both in school and in the community and to use them whenever necessary. The trick is to have a sense of when they are necessary.
One problem I'd like to mention is that too often middle and high school students are accommodated but aren't aware that changes have been made for them. I urge all teachers to explain all modifications made and to help students see that these have actually helped them succeed so they can ask for similar accommodations in the future.
I think it's great when high school programs can actively build in role playing asking for help - this is the type of self-advocacy training that will serve them well, not only in learning settings, but also at work and in the community.
Question from Harriet, parent:
Isn't there a way to arrange this system so that every time we are reading part of the answer, the page gets flipped away from us to add the next part. How about if we were to tell it to flip when we were ready to move on. It's unbelievably frustrating and for people with learning disabilities it's like torture for the sake of it. I appreciate what you are doing but not how it is working. You needn't answer this in the list but I'd love to know the answer. Thanks.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Harriet,
Thanks for the feedback. There is a link on the top of your screen that allows you to turn off the automatic refreshing feature of this software. We understand that having the screen refresh itself and flip back to the beginning can be distracting. Try this and see if it works.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
That concludes our discussion for today. Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful questions and special thanks to Dr. Roffman for her time today.
A transcript of today's chat will be available at LD Talk.org very soon.
NCLD is grateful for your participation in these online chats, and would appreciate hearing from you about your online experience with us. We would especially like to hear about your experiences with our online chat software, the topics selected for discussion, and the usefulness of the information provided. Please send your comments to help us at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it .
Visit LD Talk for information about the next in this series of chats.
Thank you for joining us!
Good afternoon and welcome to LD Talk, the Web’s first and only site devoted to expert discussions on issues concerning learning disabilities. LD Talk is a service of the National Center for Learning Disabilities (NCLD). We look forward to bringing you ongoing opportunities to connect with leading experts in the LD field via this new service. Thanks for joining us!
Our expert today is Dr. Arlyn Roffman. Arlyn is professor of special education at Lesley University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. From 1981-1996, Arlyn served as the founding director of Threshold, a transition program for young adults with learning disabilities at the university. She is the author of Meeting the Challenge of Learning Disabilities in Adulthood published by Brookes Publishing. Dr. Roffman is a former officer and long-standing member of NCLD's professional advisory board. Thanks for being with us today, Dr. Roffman.
Our discussion today will focus on Students with LD: Transitioning to Post-School Life. Dr. Roffman will respond to questions about challenges faced by students and their parents during this often confusing and stressful time. She will also share resources to help students, parents and educators make informed decisions about post-secondary options. For background on this topic, read the February 2005 issues of LD News Transition Issue
I am Dr. Sheldon Horowitz, director of professional services at the National Center for Learning Disabilities, and I’ll be moderating today’s discussion.
We have received many questions for this today’s discussion. We will do our best to offer replies to those questions most closely related to our discussion topic. Questions unrelated to this topic can be sent to NCLD’s Help Desk at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Let's begin the discussion.
Question from Joseph Costain:
Can you suggest any career testing or similar testing that might help us determine what the next step should be for our son after high school? He has not shown any interest in his future and just keeps saying he doesn't want to talk about the future because it scares him. How do we build a transition plan for a student who has not spoken up for himself. He just want to live with his parents forever. Though we love him dearly, we will not always be here and we believe he can be a fully self supporting adult. He is of average intelligence and constantly reads, which has lead to an incredible broad base of knowledge. His comprehension is grade 14, and his vocabulary grade 12. On the other side he has Aspergers Syndrome, is developmentally delayed 3-4 years, has severe learnning disabilities and mild cerebral palsey that effects his hand muscles and makes writing difficult. He has no math concept and can't count change. He is so scattered with his abilities we have no idea what to do for him and we are not getting any real direction.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
My first reaction is to respond to your son’s fear. It would be helpful if he could talk about it with you or with a teacher or counselor at school. Once he’s been reassured that he won’t be cast out on his own before he’s ready, he should be able to get ’unstuck’ enough to start articulating some interests and maybe even some dreams about his future.
At 14 and with a developmental delay, it may be a bit soon to conduct a formal evaluation, but within a couple of years, your son’s school counselor may be able to administer a Strong-Campbell Interest Inventory, which is often used to find career interest areas. Better yet would be a combination of an interest inventory and a hands-on vocational assessment, which evaluates both skills and aptitudes. Your state Department of Rehabilitation office is a resource for this evaluation. They can help you look for the overlap of interests, abilities, and aptitudes.
Since your son is 14, it’s time for relevant outside agencies to step into the transition planning process - in this case Rehab should definitely be invited.
Question from Anne Sabagh ,Individual w/Learning Disabilities:
Dr. Roffman, can you give adult w/LD some ideas of how to best meet the challenges of the workplace that so many w/LD face?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Hi Anne.
Glad you asked about this - the workplace is a great challenge for lots of folks with LD. I think the biggest hurdle is the lack of understanding of LD among employers, supervisors, and co-workers. Because it’s invisible, some are skeptical that LD exists or confuse it with other disorders, even with mental retardation.
This raises the question of whether and when to self-disclose your LD on the job. It would take the full hour of this chat to discuss all the pros and cons of self-disclosure, but I will say that it is a good idea to proceed with caution in this area. Most experts on employment advise adults with LD to wait until they are hired to self-disclose and, even then, to do so only if they will need accommodations to be able to perform the essential functions of the job. Some choose to work around the label. For example, saying, ’I can be more productive if I have a quiet place to do my work without distractions’ communicates self-awareness and assertiveness without actually disclosing the LD.
Nonetheless, you may well arrive at a point on your job when you do want to disclose your LD. It’s important that you do this proactively, rather waiting until you’re in trouble for not performing well. You’ll be most effective at disclosing if you understand your own learning issues, have a good sense of your own strengths and areas of challenge, and have practiced explaining them to others. Self-advocacy is KEY to successful employment! Some people find it helpful to disclose with some literature about LD in hand - you will find many helpful documents on LD.org and other online resources.
If you do need accommodations at work, the Job Accommodation Network (JAN) provides free telephone technical assistance and a terrific website at http://www.jan.wvu.edu, where you can identify accommodations that match your areas of challenge.
Back to your question. Because LD is so heterogeneous, the challenges in the workplace vary for each individual and for each employment setting. It’s hard to offer specific suggestions without knowing your circumstances, but I will offer one last word of advice: look for a job that capitalizes on your strengths and where your challenge areas aren’t called upon too often. Finding the right match will make all the difference in your experience in the workplace.
Question from Jocelyn Washburn, Special Education Teacher, Spotsylvania County Schools:
I am taking a graduate class at VCU on transition and am reading your book. There is so much that I need to cover with the students on my caseload before they graduate in regards to their rights and needs in adulthood. Is there a case management curriculum or checklist for essential transition information for students in grades 9-12?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Hi Jocelyn. Nice to hear you’re using my book in your class. Yes, there’s much to teach and much for the students to learn in order to prepare for adulthood. A case management package would be a great addition to the educational literature and would be a handy tool for the kind of individualized planning we need to do for students with LD as they move into high school and beyond. Unfortunately, I’m not aware of any such tool, but perhaps some of the participants in today’s chat do know of something along these lines. If so, please do write in!
For those on a college track, I do know of a few helpful lists of steps to take to prepare for post-secondary learning throughout the high school years. I especially like Loring Brinckerhoff’s comprehensive list of what should be done in each grade from eighth grade through graduation. His ’Timetable for Transition Planning for Students with LD and ADHD’ appears in his book Postsecondary Education and Transition for Students with LD, 2nd edition, written with Joan McGuire and Stan Shaw and published by Pro-Ed.
Question from Karen Abouraya, parent, Silver Spring, MD:
What options are available for students whose disabilities are too severe to allow for college...but not severe enough to be eligible for state supported employment and services?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
The percentage of students with LD who graduate from high school and continue on to college is far too low. We need to do a better job of encouraging our youth to finish high school (a shocking number drop out) and continue their learning. Happily, these days there are increasing opportunities for students with LD who are not well-suited for traditional four-year degree programs.
Several college-based, non-degree options are open to students with severe learning disabilities who may wish to experience campus life, but who would likely be too intellectually challenged by the academic rigors of a traditional degree program. Typically, these 2 - 3 year programs prepare students with LD, who also function in the low-average range intellectually, for independent adulthood through a series of practical courses and field placements. Programs generally focus on development of vocational skills, apartment living skills, consumer and money management skills, meal planning and preparation skills, and social skills. Most incorporate transitional support for graduates as they move from campus life into both the community and work world.
There are a growing number of offerings that focus on the same skills addressed in the college-based, non-degree programs but that are less academic and are not situated on a college campus. These programs are often apartment-based and focus on development of community living skills along with work preparation. Some of these programs maintain an affiliation with local colleges, and students may travel to those schools and take postsecondary courses as part of their overall program.
Many adults with LD receive additional training through their local office of the Department of Rehabilitation. The focus of training through rehab varies somewhat but largely targets development of skills related to getting and keeping a job.
Even though your question is about options other than college, I’d like to add that some students with LD who question their ability to succeed in a 4-year college give community college a try. With open admissions to any high school graduate over age 18, community colleges require neither standardized college admissions tests nor a roster of college-track courses during the high school years. They offer a wide array of courses, with classes ranging in focus from vocational to liberal arts. If it works out for the student, the credits can be transferred to either a vocational school or to a 4-year college.
Finally, the Armed Forces represent another option for some young adults with LD. Anyone going this route, however, should be sure to ask about regulations regarding qualifications, as there are disqualifiers, such as current use of medication to improve or maintain academic skills.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
For a brief overview of these types of alternative postsecondary options be sure to visit NCLD’s Living with LD Web site.
Question from Naomi Lufkin, M.A., Psychotherapist:
When an individual with a learning disability begins his/her freshman year in college, and lives away from home, would it be more likely that he/she experiences major transitional/adjustment problems to college life?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Adjustment issues arise for all entering students. For example, they all need to adjust when faced with the shift from tightly organized day to full-freedom-with-a-smattering-of-scheduled-classes; when class size may suddenly jump into the hundreds; when study time is completely based upon self-initiation; and when there is little feedback on progress until mid-terms.
But there are some challenges specific to LD, as a student moves on to college life. Some relate to the symptoms of the learning disability itself. For example, students with auditory issues who need extra processing time may have difficulty taking notes and absorbing information delivered through fast-paced lectures. Those with receptive language problems may find themselves confused by written test items or by oral directions. Students with reading disorders often feel particularly burdened by the heavy reading requirements in many areas of study, such as literature or history. And students with temporal problems have little sense of the time required to complete a task and tend to have inefficient study habits.
Perhaps the biggest adjustment faced by new college students with LD is that, having moved beyond the protection of IDEA and their IEP, services are no longer mandated, and they must become self-advocates if they are to receive accommodations.
The good news is that there are supports in place to help students through all of this! Students with LD should take advantage of the support services on campus. Disabled Students Services offices can be incredibly helpful in offering not only academic support, but also assistance with pre-registration, advice about course selection, and help with organization.
Question from Nithya, Mother of senior in high school:
Hi, My daughter is motivated hard working high school senior. But her test taking skills( SAT/ ACT) are very poor. How I can explain that to colleges that require SATs but have good support programs for these motivated dyslexic 3.0 class average kids.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
It’s great that your daughter is motivated, hard working and achieving - those are characteristics that will serve her well when she heads off to school! There are many colleges and universities these days that de-emphasize testing in the admissions process. A list of those is available at Schools That Do Not Use SAT I or ACT Scores for Admitting Substantial Numbers of Students Into Bachelor Degree Programs.
Your daughter needn’t limit herself to the schools on this list, however. Often colleges with good support services have academic support center staff linked closely to admissions. Many competitive colleges would find her an attractive candidate; however, she’ll need to advocate for herself (N.B. It’s not up to you to do the explaining- this is her task.) In the context of her personal essay, she should identify the challenges she’s faced and describe how she’s demonstrated drive, effort and persistence - these are all very desirable qualities. In addition, she should let the college know that the reason she’s applying is that she has heard they offer high quality support services that will meet her needs. Good luck in the admissions process!
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
By the way,if you want to access a copy of the Timetable for Transition Planning referenced earlier, you might want to visit the SchwabLearning.org Web site after March 8th, when Loring's article is published on that site.
Question from Karen Abouraya, parent, Silver Spring, Maryland:
What strategies do you use to teach young people about money, from getting the right change to budgeting a paycheck?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Lots of adults with LD struggle in their efforts to become financially responsible. There are a variety of factors that can get in their way. For example, if they have dyscalculia, they may find it hard to perform calculations; dyslexia may make it difficult to contend with written information they receive from their bank; and visual perception problems may cause them to reverse numbers or misalign columns in computation.
We have featured an excerpt from my book, Meeting the Challenge of Learning Disabilities in Adulthood that directly addresses this particular issue, so you can click on that to read more about this.
The Practical Money Skills for Life program - advertised as being ’an in-depth resource for educating students in grades 7-12 about smart money management’ - is available through the Council for Exceptional Children (CEC) at www.practicalmoneyskills.com.
As a parting word, though, I will say that it is far more motivating to young people with LD to learn about money within the context of real-life experiences than with simulated transactions. For example, practicing with a real checking account wins hands-down over role-playing banking within a resource room. A combination of classroom teaching and practice in the community is advisable.
Question from Beth Kessen, Mom, 2 sons with Multiple LD:
One son graduates high school this June, my other one next year. What's the biggest hurdle they face, and what can I do to help, or at least, not hinder?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
It’s great you’re thinking about ways to help your sons through this transition. I love the fact that you’ve included ’not hinder’ in your question. Too many parents, though meaning well, foster an unhealthy dependence and what is called a learned helplessness in their children with LD. A great gift for your sons would be helping them move toward self-determination, which is the ability to make choices on their own, to be effective decision-makers, to be able to set goals for themselves, to be self-aware and have a sense that they have the ability to achieve what they reasonably set out to do.
At this point in their children’s development, parents need to start pulling back from being the managers of their lives. Give your sons choices, allow them a voice in decision-making whenever possible, encourage them to communicate their vision for the short- and long-term future and help them think about how they might achieve what they articulate. While your sons are still in high school, urge them to take an active role in their IEP meetings. Help them develop the confidence and skills needed to be their own self-advocates in the community and on the job.
In the meantime, help them see that their LD is only a piece of who they are. Help them identify and feel good about their strengths - students with LD spend far too much time concentrating on what they can’t do and not enough time celebrating what they can.
Question from Stephen Migden, PhD, Psychologist/Educ Consultant:
As you know, AHEAD documentation requirements, as well as those of many post-secondary high stakes tests, have tended to emphasize comprehensive psychoed testing in order to obtain accommodations and services under the ADA and RA. In view of this, how do you think the new IDEA's movement toward identification of LD via RTI can be integrated with current post-secondary documentation requirements, such as those of AHEAD? What role do you think the Summary of Performance called for in the new IDEA will play in post-secondary documentation of LD? Thanks.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Change is in the air! With Response to Intervention (RTI)(see NCLD's FAQ for more information on this topic), there is a stepping back from the psycho-educational battery that school-aged students have received in the past. I hear there is buzz on the AHEAD listserv about how colleges will handle the documentation requirement.
It’s easiest to understand how RTI will work in the context of the primary grades when students are just beginning to work on basic skills. The picture gets cloudier in the upper and secondary grades, where the model appears to be less applicable. If students graduate without a formal assessment battery, colleges are going to have to work with what IS provided, which may include a narrative history of the student’s learning challenges; authentic assessment devices, such as portfolios; and the Summary of Performance, which will play a key role in communicating the student’s strengths and weaknesses. Our next challenge will be to train teachers how to write them in a effectively! AHEAD is wrestling with this issue and has set up a task force to determine how it will respond.
Question from Michael C. Lasky ,NCLD Board:
1. Since so many young adults with learning disabilities learn experientially, I have been suprised in my own investigation to find very few "hands on" learning or cooperative educational post secondary/ college programs there are in the country for students with mild to moderate learning disabilities. Is my investigation accurrate and are there programs in the new media/ information technology area that you think do this?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
You are absolutely correct. So many students, not just those with learning disabilities, could benefit from more hand-on types of post-secondary training programs. (Some European nations actually provide these types of experiences across a wide range of vocational areas.) While I don't have first-hand information about specific programs in the media/information technology area, I bet there are a number of companies that offer certificate training programs that could serve as a jumping-off point for these students. Cisco, for example has a Neworking Academy that offers students an opportunity to pursue IT curricula through online instructor-led training and hands-on lab exercises at a variety of locations including community colleges.
Question from Joanne Simonson, School Psychologist, Pacifica School District:
What are some practical ideas for preparing middle school aged children for the transition to independence?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Bravo for thinking about starting on this before high school! Actually, I think we can start even younger, but middle school is a great time to ratchet up the focus on developing independence. I’ll focus on what the school can do as well as how the family can join in on this.
Both parents and teachers should foster self-determination and self-advocacy, as I’ve described above, giving students lots of practice in choice-making, goal-setting, etc.
By late middle school, teachers should help students with LD learn more about the IEP process and the essential role they should play in developing IEPs during high school. Check out this resource from the Council for Exceptional Children: Student-Led IEPs: A Guide for Student Involvement
Parents should help their children plan their own leisure time activities and, if necessary, coach them on related social skills.
Parents and teachers should work in cooperation to help their children develop good work habits, a structure for getting assignments done and an awareness of the conditions under which they learn/perform best.
Parents should give children of this age a start on developing skills for independent living, such as cooking, cleaning , shopping, doing laundry.
Parents and teachers alike can help develop children’s awareness of various occupations and what kinds of skills and training they entail. Job fairs and planned activities, such as Take-Your-Child-to-Work-Day are very helpful in giving them an introduction to different types of employment.
At your school you may want to consider using ’My Future My Plan’ a transition curriculum. Information about this resource is available at the National Center on Secondary Education and Transition.
Question from Judy Lee (mother):
Is there a list of 4 year university that specialize or sympathize with the dyslexic student. My dauther is interested in nursing.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
The Peterson’s Colleges with Programs for Students with Learning Disabilities or Attention-Deficit Disorders by Mangrum and Strichart should be a very helpful resource for you. Another resource is the K & W Guide to Colleges for Students with Learning Disabilities or Attention Deficit Disorder by Kravets and Wax.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
A word of advice these types of published guides are often a terrific starting point for gathering information and narrowing down a search. Remember, however, that they are just that; a starting point. Personnel come and go, and funding for programs and services at colleges is subject to change, so it is always wise to make personal contact (phone or e-mail) with the office of department overseeing disability services. And another word for Judy. If your daughter is interested in nursing, be sure to ask whether the office that coordinates student support had a good working relationship with the folks over at the department! If not, it would pay to organize a series of conversations around what you know to be the ingredients for success for your daughter.
Question from Randy Arm, Parent:
How do you impress upon them the importance of staying with a good job long enough for benefits and other extras instead of keeping a job for a year at a time and moving on to another?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Most young adults change jobs a number of times when they first enter the work world, some because their responsibilities change and they no longer find their position to be a good fit to their skills, and some because they lose interest or are let go. Perhaps your child isn’t well matched to his position. He might consider a vocational evaluation, as I described earlier. He could also go onto the Internet to O*Net Online. Developed by the Department of Labor, it provides many valuable links to sites on related employment information.
That said, you may want offer him the sound advice that the best time to look for a job is when one has a job. That way there won’t be a gap in income or health insurance, and he’ll have an opportunity to compare benefits, salary, hours, etc. against those offered at the job he’s considering leaving.
Question from Ellen Costain - Parent:
My question is related to the transfer of rights. I do not want my son, who is developmentally delayed and has Asperger's Syndrom to conduct business matters with the public school or any other agency without an attorney or myself ensuring his rights are protected. I do not want my son released from special education unless his goals are met or he reaches the age of 21. How can I protect his rights without having him declared incompetent? In discussing this with an attorney I was told it would cost about $5,000 and be costly and stressful to overturn later in his life if he becomes capable of handling his own affairs.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Parents of students with severe LD often struggle with this same issue, wanting to protect their children but concerned about locking them into a position of dependence if they go to court and establish incompetence. Schools do have an obligation to notify students one year before they reach the age of majority (18) that they will be responsible for the signing of their IEP. I believe it is possible to check on the IEP that the student elects to share that responsibility with his/her parents or with someone else - by doing so, it will be possible to avoid the stress and expense you’ve described in having him declared incompetent and later reversing that status.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
Be sure to learn about the Changes to Transition Planning that are effective July 1, 2005, as a result of the recent reauthorization of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.
Question from Ellen Schwartz, physical therapist,CPNJ and mother of 16 yr old boy with specific learning disability:
Is it advisable for a high school student, who is functioning very well in mainstream classes with accomodations, to self-disclose his learning disability when applying to college?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Since your son has done very well in mainstream classes, I don’t think it’s necessary to self-disclose during the application process. However, since you report that he benefited from accommodations, I would urge him to step forward and self-disclose as soon as he’s accepted so he can benefit from accommodations in his college classes as well. The college is not obligated to accommodate unless he does self-disclose. FYI, the percentage of college freshmen with LD who disclose has gone up dramatically in recent years, so he will certainly not be alone in this!
Question from Debra Martin, Parent:
My daughter has dyslexia and she is interested in a trade school maybe Cosmetology Program. Can a state exam for a lisence be read to someone who has dyslexia? Any other advise in looking into trade schools or Junior colleges?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Generally, the answer is yes - with appropriate documenation of her dyslexia, most schools would agree to provide a reader for licensing tests. For particulars in your state, I would contact the state agency in charge of Cosmetology credentialing.
Question from Vicky Kauffman, Parent and lecturer at UNM:
My daughter is about to turn 18, but is far from graduating High school. It's been recommended that she seek her GED and move on to a tech-vocational school, to stay with folks her age, and to stop the dismal performance route she's on. Do you think this is a good idea? and do you have suggestions?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
As you know, your daughter is entitled to remain at the high school until she meets the graduation requirements or reaches age 22. It sounds as if she’s been struggling and is more likely to age out than earn a diploma. I’m wondering what your daughter’s opinion is about this. At 18 she is watching her peers graduate, getting ready to go to work or continue on to college, moving on both physically and psychologically to a new phase of life. It can be very demoralizing for students with special needs to remain in their high school after the rest of their class graduates unless there is a promising and exciting transition plan in place so that next year won’t be just ’more of the same.’
Many students at risk for failing high stakes testing are opting for a GED, which allows them to experience closure of the K-12 school years and opens doors to post-secondary learning opportunities. Is there a program at the voc-tech school that interests her? I suggest that she read the course catalogue, go for a visit, spend a day shadowing a well-chosen student to get a sense of the school and the students who attend. It is very possible she’ll find a potential community there where she will be accepted and where she can at last succeed in her course work.
If her high school is offering a community-based transition program where she can acquire vocational and life skills, have her investigate details about that too. But I would let her opt out of the high school if she is going to have to continue to enroll in the same type of classes where she has repeatedly met with failure and frustration.
Sit down and talk it all over. Guide her through the decision-making process, but ultimately, at 18, it is she who should be the decision-maker. This is an important opportunity for self-determination.
Question from Eleni Martin, Parent:
Many schools de-emphasize the need for LD students to learn script--as long as Janey and Johny can print, they will be fine. But, the realitiy is that not knowing how to read script writing sets the stage for difficulties and can adversely impact performance at the workplace and at college. With this in mind, I have two questions: 1. The inability to read script means that many LD individuals may miss out on important information in their day-to-day life. What are your thoughts on this challenge for LD adults?; and 2. Practically speaking, how do you teach script reading and writing to young adults and what type of instructor does one go to for this?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Schools used to make such a fuss about learning handwriting, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside in all but the primary years, as keyboards have become more available. In these days of high-stakes testing, other skills and lessons have risen in priority. Many students with LD who struggle with fine-motor problems truly benefit from the availability of technology to write their thoughts, and upper-grade teachers are quite happy to be able to decipher their work. If the students can print reasonably well on short-answer work and use a keyboard for extensive writing assignments, teachers are often satisfied to let it go at that.
I’m with you, though, that all students should learn to decode script. You make a good point about the disadvantages both in the community and in the workplace for those who haven’t been taught to read cursive writing. This is not a complex skill, however, so you could either ask for it to be a goal on your child’s IEP or take this on at home. A helpful resource is Cursive Writing Skills by Diana Hanbury King, published by Educators Publishing Service, at http://www.epsbooks.com/dynamic/catalog/ . This workbook will get your child writing a bit and will certainly help him or her learn to recognize cursive lettering. Good luck on this!
Question from Lura Jaquess, Clinical Social Worker, Justice Center:
What are the IDEA laws that affect higher learning institutions? What are possible funding resources for higher learning opportunities for individuals with a learning disabilitiy or ADD/ADHD? Grants and Scholorships?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
IDEA applies to students in grades K-12; it does not affect post-secondary institutions. Graduates with LD may apply for the Anne Ford Scholarship - information about this award is available at http://ncld.org/awards/afscholarinfo.cfm. I am not aware of other scholarships specific to LD, but Fastweb.com and Collegeboard.com both allow you to search through a vast array of scholarship offerings. Also check out the HEATH Resource Center: Financial Aid for Students with Disabilities.
When finances are limited, many students opt to at least begin their studies at community colleges.
Question from Cynthia, Parent:
How do you get across to the school district that you are concerned for the lack of level of education that your child is at when only a few years remain before formal public education stops?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Unfortunately, there are MANY students with LD who are being ill-served by schools these days. The National Longitudinal Transition Study-II reports that significant numbers of our students function well below grade level; that 31% spend ALL their time in general education classes, where few teachers have been trained to meet their needs; and, sadly, that only 62% of these general ed teachers receive any information at all about the needs of the students with LD included in their classes! (Learn more about this important study.) Despite the legal requirement for transition planning in the US, there are 9 states that don’t even employ secondary transition coordinators. So the system definitely needs fixing. If you’re unhappy with your child’s progress, you can express that at his IEP meeting. In fact, you can call a meeting of the team at any time to express your concerns. Since you still have several years left within the school system, take a more active role in your child’s IEP development- you are critically important to the process!
Question from Mary Roots, Sp.Ed. Teacher, Hutchinson (KS) Public Schools:
Over 50% of our student population come from poverty level homes. During the high school years students are prepared for adulthood, but after graduation most do not transition successfully; i.e. they do not use the skills taught in school to gain employment or stay employed, they do not become involved in community groups and do not use community agencies. Many wander the streets; some turn to crime. Our community agencies are very understaffed and the students who get help are those who are strong self-advocates. In addition, 40-50% of my seniors drop out of school; most of them are within weeks of graduation. My questions are: 1. What changes need to be made at school so that they will be live more successful lives? 2. What can be done to insure that Community agencies will remain involved with my students? 3. What can be done to keep the 18 year old in school so they can get their diploma?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
You’ve asked some very important questions - the pattern you see in your community is replicated in so many others throughout the country. We MUST reduce the rate of drop-out among our students with LD! Nationally, more than 30% of our students are failing to complete high school and face futures of limited employment, poverty, low self-esteem and too often crime. We have to find new ways to keep youth with LD in high school through graduation. One way to do this is to make education more relevant for these high-risk students. We need to offer occupationally-oriented education that allows them to explore a variety of work environments during their school years. According to the National Longitudinal Transition Study, independent of other factors, youth who graduate from high school, who take voc ed during their senior year, or have work experience as part of their vocational training are significantly more likely than others to be competitively employed after high school. So, I’d start by getting them into the work world for part of every day. In these days of high-stakes testing, there’s not a lot of support for removing students from traditional course work, but those at risk of dropping out will find it more motivating to learn life-skills oriented classes that teach workplace literacy skills and reinforce survival-level basic skills. We need to have high expectations for these students - too often teachers give up on them, and then are surprised when they give up on themselves! We have to offer individualized planning that helps them identify their goals and offers appropriate services to help actually reach them. A 1:1 mentoring program would put these students on the radar of at least one caring adult and would assure them that the school really does care about their progress. By the time students enter the secondary years, we need to bring community agencies into the schools to participate in transition planning and to firmly establish their involvement with students who will continue to need their services following graduation. We need to celebrate like crazy when they do actually graduate and provide bridge services for a year as they transition from high school to agency support. I know my plan wouldn’t fix the system, but I do think it would be a start in the right direction.
Question from Megan Miller, mother of 9th grade student:
My daughter is preparing for post-secondary education. Are there any services we can expect to receive from the college or university she chooses,how do we obtain information as to what is available? What type of post-high school services should the school be providing in preparation for college?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
There are over a thousand colleges and universities in the US that now offer services to students with learning disabilities, so your daughter will have a broad range of options! First, she should check in the Peterson’s Guide or the K & W Guide for schools that meet any criteria she’s set for college size, location, academic offerings, etc. (These guides are available from Amazon.com or may also be available in your local library.) The guides provide some details about the level of services offered. There’s no universal model of service delivery - some schools offer an array of separate services, others offer a more comprehensive program - so it’ll take some checking.
Given appropriate documentation, schools typically provide auxiliary aids, such as taped textbooks, tape recorders, readers, and sometimes note-takers. Accommodations such as extended time on exams or distraction-free test-taking rooms must be available as well. Many schools provide an academic skills center that helps students improve study skills.
Campuses with more comprehensive support programs provide more in-depth services for students. Coordinated by full-time personnel with expertise in LD and ADHD, these programs use a diagnostic-prescriptive approach, providing individualized services, such as subject-area tutoring and developmental courses in math, writing, social skills, and/or self-advocacy.
There are other points to consider when choosing a college. For example, prospective students should investigate the school’s flexibility with regard to course requirements and its stand on course substitutions for math or foreign language.
Loring Brinckerhoff has written a timely article, entitled ’Teens with LD and ADHD: Shopping for College Options,’ which will be posted on the Schwab Learning Web site on March 8th and which will surely be of interest to you. (Sign up for the Schwab Learning Weekly Newsletter so you'll be sure to know when this article appears!)
Another overview of the college search process is provided in this article: Selecting A College for Students with Learning Disabilities or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).
You ask what your daughter’s high school should be doing to prepare her for post-secondary life. Aside from reinforcing her basic skills and teaching her study skills and organizational strategies, I think it’s critical that she be helped to understand her learning disability, the kinds of accommodations that help her work around her areas of difficulty, and her rights and responsibilities under the law. It’s essential that she know how to communicate this information to others - as I’ve already said earlier in this chat, self-advocacy is key to success as an adult. Another helpful document that provides information for high school students with disabilities who plan to continue their education in postsecondary schools is available from the U.S. Dept of Education's Office for Civil Rights (OCR) , entitled, Students with Disabilities Preparing for Postsecondary Education:
Know Your Rights and Responsibilities.
Question from Carolyn Stepnitz, Parent, Cecil County Public Schools, Maryland:
My son is a high school senior who, with classroom accommodations and LOTS of help at home, consistently achieved honor roll grades. However, if he had to pass the state tests to graduate, he wouldn't be graduating, and in the practical world outside the classroom, his language based learning disabilities (some of which, like auditory processing deficits, were not even diagnosed until high school) constantly hold him back. Because of his grades the school resisted helping. We filed a complaint and the State found the school had committed several violations of the IDEA law. We are to have a meeting to determine the effect the violations had on his edcuation and how to compensate him. Do you have advice for what course we should set for a senior who did not get appropriate instruction in learning how to learn with a disability? Thank you.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
If the State has found the school in violation of the law, you have a good chance of receiving some compensatory services if you request them. Ask for a tutor to work with your son to bridge the areas where he’s fallen behind and help him learn strategies for learning. They may be willing to pay for a summer pre-college program that focuses on skill building. Landmark College has an excellent program. The Lab School of Washington is closer to you - check whether they have services that might be helpful to your son.
Question from Lorraine Adler, Social Worker and Parent:
There are very few jobs for these children especially with writing deficits. My daughter has ADD and writing dificulties. She was employed as clerical/AA due to her computer skills but there are fewer clerical supportjobs.These jobs are decreasing every year. What type of meaningful work awaits them. How will they support them selves in such low paying work. She is now very depressed and may qualify for disability payments but that is not the future that I had hoped for as a parent.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
For some adults with LD, the day-to-day effort required to deal with their symptoms can be both exhausting and discouraging and can lead to mental health problems. I’m sorry to hear about your daughter’s depression. It’s very likely that getting back on track in the work world will be healing. The trick will be to find work with a ’goodness of fit,’ that matches her interests and aptitudes. There are many jobs that don’t entail a lot of writing and where her ADHD may not be an impediment.
Your daughter sounds like an excellent candidate to benefit from the services of the Department of Rehabilitation, a national agency that has offices in every state. Services provided include a comprehensive vocational assessment, job training and placement, and follow-up. Counselors there will be able to find a good job match for your daughter and should help launch her into more stable employment. You can locate the REHAB office in your state here.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
The Timetable for Transition Planning referred to earlier is available after March 8th at the SchwabLearning.org Web site, when Loring's article and additional links will be published.
Question from Geralyn DiMango, parent:
Is a "garden variety" high school guidance counselor in a good position to make recommendations as to post high school direction, or should we hire a private education specialist to help us?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
This is a great question. There are a number of variables at work here. In the best of worlds, all public school guidance counselors are familiar enough not only with each individual student in their case load, but also with the broad range of options - from community colleges to competitive 4-year universities - that provide services for students with LD. Unfortunately, most guidance counselors have an impossible case load, and not enough know about the services students with LD need to access. That said, it’s hard to respond to your query.
At my daughter’s public school, some guidance counselors had better reputations than others for knowing their students and some more than others for having a good sense of what schools had to offer. Ask parents of previous graduates with LD about their experiences with the counselors at your school. Go talk with you son or daughter’s counselor and ask what s/he can offer your child.
Independent consultants visit many colleges each year and are able to keep up with specifics, not only about their various programs, but also about personnel, policies, documentation requirements and even the culture of the campus. Their services range from hourly consultation about choosing a school to a full package that takes a student through the process of selecting appropriate options, preparing for the SAT/ACT, filling out the application, preparing essays, practicing for the interview, even coaching about what to wear for the visit to campus. Naturally, fees range considerably for these services, not only based on specifics contracted for, but also based on where in the US you live - fees tend to be higher on the coasts.
More information about private college counseling is available at the website for Independent Educational Consultants Association (IECA) - http://www.IECAonline.com, and at the site for National Association of College Admissions Counselors (NACAC) - http://www.NACAC.com. Good luck with the college application process!
Question from Karen R. Nicholas, Ph.D., Nicholas Educational Consulting:
So many students with LD attend post-secondary institutions yet don't self-report their disability or request services. Consequently, they are not taking advantage of the many support services that are made available to them, choosing to face the demands of post-secondary education head-on without seeking help. What are your suggestions for increasing the awareness of (and lessening the stigma of) seeking support services in higher ed? Do institutions have an obligation to "recruit" students and provide services, thus potentially increasing the graduation rate of students with LD?
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
It's so important that we somehow reduce the shame associated with LD! Too many students graduate from high school and feel negative about asking for services in college. One college student who was struggling came to me not too long ago and told me she had always had support services in the past but wanted a "clean slate" when she went on to university. She felt after all those years of services, maybe she was all better.
I'm afraid this was wishful thinking on her part. LD doesn't go away, though the symptoms may decrease in certain arenas. Certainly if a student has needed assistance with writing in the past, this is going to be an area where support will be needed in postsecondary learning.
I encourage teachers, guidance counselors and parents to all talk about the chronicity of LD as a given, that LD will be a piece of their life for the longrun, but that it's just a piece of who they are. It's important for ALL students to know the resources available to them both in school and in the community and to use them whenever necessary. The trick is to have a sense of when they are necessary.
One problem I'd like to mention is that too often middle and high school students are accommodated but aren't aware that changes have been made for them. I urge all teachers to explain all modifications made and to help students see that these have actually helped them succeed so they can ask for similar accommodations in the future.
I think it's great when high school programs can actively build in role playing asking for help - this is the type of self-advocacy training that will serve them well, not only in learning settings, but also at work and in the community.
Question from Harriet, parent:
Isn't there a way to arrange this system so that every time we are reading part of the answer, the page gets flipped away from us to add the next part. How about if we were to tell it to flip when we were ready to move on. It's unbelievably frustrating and for people with learning disabilities it's like torture for the sake of it. I appreciate what you are doing but not how it is working. You needn't answer this in the list but I'd love to know the answer. Thanks.
Dr. Arlyn Roffman:
Harriet,
Thanks for the feedback. There is a link on the top of your screen that allows you to turn off the automatic refreshing feature of this software. We understand that having the screen refresh itself and flip back to the beginning can be distracting. Try this and see if it works.
Dr. Sheldon Horowitz (Moderator):
That concludes our discussion for today. Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful questions and special thanks to Dr. Roffman for her time today.
A transcript of today's chat will be available at LD Talk.org very soon.
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